If you believe it is a world of choice, you regard your life as a product of your own decisions. If you believe in fate(destiny), you suspect there are greater forces defining your life’s story and that you play little to no part in where life leads you.
This theme will be heavily apparent and revealed throughout Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet. So, before we read, I want to get your honest opinions on this from a modern persepctive. Thus, my question to you is this:
Is this life of ours governed by choice or fate?
I believe our life is governed by choice. I know in many novels there have been prophecies and such that talk about the fate, but if not for the choices (trying to avoid a prophecy, or fate by killing people as in Macbeth is a choice), the characters would not reach their "fate", so in a way, "fate" depends on decisions so its the choices that lead the way. Like luck, something is lucky if one believes it is lucky, but one chooses that. Life (in my opinion) is based on choices, especially in times of stress or worry.
ReplyDelete-Elisa period 1 (I hope this was not too confusing)
so are you trying to say that the choices we make ultimately decide our destiny? like in films how they go back in time and if a previous choice was changed there whole life changed? if so then yeah i kind of agree with that but it still your "choices" that make your future.
Delete-Khuram (period 5)
That is what I was thinking exactly. We live our life, and we choose how it will go. If we made a bad choice, we have to face the consequences in the future, while if we make a good hoice, we can reap thee benefits (In most cases).
DeleteI get what you're saying elisa and shiv...it's just i can't help feeling there's more to life than just our choices. I think fate does make an appearance in our life.
Delete-Riti (5th period)
I am unable to post this as a comment (sorry for replying on your comment) this is my comment:
DeleteI believe that all of the choices you make are not determined by fate. they are the choices that YOU make, no one else is making them for you. If fate controlled all of our decisions for us we would have no choice in how are life goes! And so we are blessed to be able to choose where we go in life, because if we didnt life would be SOOOOO boring!
-malia
(sorry for the inconvenience
at Khuram:
DeleteIf you theoretically traveled back in time, you would not be able to logically change anything affecting the state which you were in when you time traveled. The time continuum couldn't be changed. e.g. If you went back in time, you could not, say, accidentally cause the death of your own grandfather. You would have not been born, then, and therefore you could not have traveled back in time to kill you grandfather in the first place.
Confused yet?
-Aaron
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletei believe we are in control of life through our decisions. if we were controlled by an outside force i believe there would be no purpose in life other then to be guided by a string all our life. we choices in life all the time, from when to sleep to what career you should take. If even those choices are controlled by "destiny" then we are just mindless zombies going through life, not free being that can to want they want.
ReplyDelete- Khuram (5th period)
I sort of disagree with you. If you look at how tiny decisions affect the course of our lives it's almost like there is something there guiding us in the right direction (not necessarily making the choices for us). Has anyone watched 'The Adjustment Bureau'? The entire movie is on this topic.
Deletei agree with suzanne...destiny is the 'keyhole' of life...although choices may be the 'key' and they might open doors but fate is already decided no matter what since the day you were born.
DeleteI disagree, you say fate is there but how do you know if it's already decided? [don't say you can't tell, think outside the box]
Delete*something happens*-after the event, you decide that is "fate". AFTER THE EVENT. You can pass anything off as fate.
If you can, challenge the statement.
the post above is not disagreeing with Khuram Manji, but with the two repliers
DeleteI get what you're saying, but how would life be pointless if we were all guided by a higher power? I can see how it would be if we were just midless slaves going through life exactly as it was planned. But if everyone were involved in a master plan, I think that would be much more useful and important than if we were just a bunch of people doing nothing but living our (relatively) useless lives.
DeleteBut Khuram, you have to think to yourself about this: does it really matter is we are being controlled by and outside force if we are under the illusion that we have free will? Is actual "free will" as important as you really think? Then again, you or I may not be thinking right now, only acting on the commands of a higher being. If so, what is the true nature of free will?
Delete-Aaron
I believe we make our own choices, which consequently decide our fate( Like Elisa Said). Although, we may never know because some higher force could be making me think and write this paragraph. It could be all planned out. We could feel accomplished, but in reality we could be puppets on a playing field. I am very indecisive, but I will choose my first one: We make our own choices.
ReplyDelete---- Shiv Pandya (1st) ----
Choice. That is what our lives are governed by.
ReplyDeleteWe have the free will to do what we choose in life.
Destiny, I believe, only guides us in a certain direction.
It doesn't choose for us.
That direction is also affected by free will:
We could either choose to accept it, to go where it takes us
or to fight it and go towards a new direction.
For example, I could choose to go sit and watch Alvin and the Chipmunks while sitting on the couch and eating cheese puffs right now,
But instead, I choose to do my hw and study for the Bio test tomorrow.
The cheese puffs call, but hey.
It's my choice.
^ Bad example...
DeleteBetter one:
You are driving, and then all of a sudden you have the urge to turn right.
Whether you choose to or not would be up to you,right?
It doesn't matter if you believe that fate would get you into a car accident...
You still had the choice to turning or going stright.
I definitely disagree. What you say is just for really one thing. Yeah sure maybe if you turn right you might get into a car accident, but in the long run there is a fate already set up for you. It's just the choices that you make change the way that you get to your fate. It's like a maze with many ways to get out. You can decide whether to go one way or the other and that's up to you, but eventually you'll end up out of the maze no matter what choice you make. So, you choose which path you want to take, but you'll get to your fate no matter what.
Deleteconnie cheng 5th period :DDD
D: NUUU. I don't want to live in a world where the decisions were already "foretold" for me!
DeleteWhich means no matter how hard I try, I would still die at age 34?
That kinda stuff belongs in great works of thought.
I mean, there's no way we could verify what is true and what is not...it's not like we could walk up to one of the two and ask how this "decision" making thing works...
I want to be able to make a final decision on what happens...so if it does mean crashing my car, so be it.
I am human, I have free will!
Since everybody's saying our lives are governed by choice, I feel the need to say our lives are determined by fate. Everybody says we make our own decisions, thus resulting in their conclusion that we live our lives based on our own decisions. But consider this: What if your choices are already predetermined? You might say that it's your decision because it was YOUR logic and YOUR reasoning behind your decision, but what if YOUR logic and YOUR reasoning behind all of your decisions was predetermined as well? Good luck answering that.
ReplyDeleteWell, if everything was predetermined by fate already, then why did you decide to post in this blog? Why did you decide to say that fate controls our lives? If fate really controls our lives, then there would be no need for making choices, because if greater forces said, "Hey he's going to end up here no matter what he tries to do" then what would be the point in trying to change it?
Delete-Alyza King 5th per.
To answer your first question, the logic and reasoning behind my decision to post in this blog was already predetermined - thus making the decision itself predetermined. As for your second question, just because fate controls our lives doesn't necessarily mean there would be "no need for making choices." It just means that the choices you've made, are making, and will make in the future, have already been predetermined, so you're still making the choices in all technicality. (it's like a weather forecast. the weatherman is fate, and the atmosphere is humanity. when the weatherman predicts the weather, it eventually happens, right? it's the same way with our predetermined decisions.) - And these predetermined decisions ultimately determine the outcome of everybody's life. Get it? ^_^
DeleteThen why are criminals "bad guys"? They were fated to do harm and nothing can change that. Why should they suffer because of this mysterious fate?
DeleteOkay Chris, if criminals were not punished, other people could just as easily say they were "destined to be bad" and start committing atrocities left and right. So the main reason criminals are punished for their actions is to keep order in society. It has nothing to do with what they are destined to be. If they are destined to be bad, well, too bad for them.
DeleteNow Alan. He's giving us an interesting perspective on this topic by saying that all of our choices have been written down in fate. This is hard to disprove. How would we know whether or not the choices we are taking right now are determined by fate or not? How do we know what fate has in store for us? Basically, if we were to assume fate is true, we will always have choices, but we will only choose the one fate has in store for us. And we will never know what fate has in store for us. Unless Astrology becomes a lot more convincing :\
@Chris
DeleteWhy should criminals suffer because of their fate? Because it's part of the "deal" of being a "bad guy." The bad guy that the individual was fated to become.
Sure, it isn't fair that these individuals have an atrocious destiny, but of course, what do we hear whenever we complain about something not being fair? Everyone knows it:
Life isn't fair.
You say everything was predetermined but who really made the decision, you or this invisible force called fate? Yes, you're life is going to the way it happens, but that doesn't mean fate is the one controlling it. You're the one controlling it. You're the one making the decisions.
DeleteLet me ask you this: How do you know YOU are making the choices? What if "fate" is making all of the choices for you? There will always be choices in life, and you THINK you have the ability to choose. It may also seem that you have the reasoning behind your choice. However, cross-applying Alan's original argument, what if fate is the actual force behind your actions? Of course, no one can ever prove this either way.
DeleteQuite honestly, I believe in the "It's our choices." perspective because I find it more exciting to consider life as something that happens as it comes because of what YOU decide to do with it. :DD
DeleteIn my eyes, life kinda loses its.....what i guess you could call "PIZZAZZ!" when you think that "Everything you'll ever do is WRITTEN IN STONE and whatever has already happened to you was BOUND to happen and there's nothing you can do about it because of almighty FATE."
just an opinion [:
Bessie, just because fate exists does not mean life will lose its "pizzazz." Notice how I stated that life will still have choices in store for you, so you will still need to make choices in life, keeping it exciting. All fate means is that it determines the choices you make. It doesn't get rid of all choices.
DeleteAlan. It is hard to disagree with you and Shomik with all of the mind-boggling logic that you two have provided; so I am not going to. I even admitted in my own blog entry that free will could just be an illusion to people while fate is working in their lives. I believe that the main reason our fellow classmates are choosing to support a life of choice is because it seems like a better existence. Wouldn’t it be depressing if you knew that you were destined for failure. No matter how hard you worked you could never achieve greatness. That would suck.
DeleteBut I'm also kind of indecisive, like Shiv, on the topic of fate & destiny. I believe that it is possible that we have a decided fate for us, but it's not entirely set in stone. I agree with Sam that destiny guides us, but we can veer off that path either with good or bad decisions. It's not only your choices, but also your mindset and determination that decide where you will get in life.
ReplyDelete--Suzanne C. (1st Period)--
i believe that our choice dominates most parts/aspects of our lives, but fate still plays a small role. Fate may have a huge disaster planned in the future for us, but it is our choices and the way we choose to react to the situation that allows us to determine our lives.
ReplyDeletealso, i strongly recommend reading the Leven Thumps series:) the topic/plot of this series strongly relates to our discussion of fate/choice and it is a good-read anyway
-Chris chiu 5th-
I agree with what you said about us still having some control of our lives, because i think our world would be pretty weird if we just ran around with some invisible force telling us what to do all the time:) and also i love those books;) my favorite character is Clover:).
DeleteI feel that a person's life is controlled by a mixture of fate and choice. A person may make a decision, but the decision they choose could be the effect of fate acting on them. I believe that fate pulls a person in a general direction, but the smaller aspects of life are based upon the decisions and choices you make within fate's criteria. For example, your fate decides you will become a doctor. Your choices will determine how you take that path to become a doctor, but in the end you will become a doctor nonetheless.
ReplyDeleteAlso, choices you make are based on past experiences or information you know. But what caused you to come across this information to influence your way of thinking? Is it fate?
To me, one thing for sure is fate and choice are strongly connected, as one greatly affects the other.
-Melissa Lam (Period 1)
If, as you say they are, connected,
Deletethen would fate make the final decision of what happens to you?
Would choice change what type of fate you have? Or would you say that no matter what, fate will have her way, regardless of what course you choose?
I had a really hard time trying to choose fate or choice for this topic. I think fate and choice are so closely connected that its hard for a person to truly tell what ultimately determines the course of one's life.
DeleteSo in answer to your question, I don't know for sure. But I believe fate changes choice and choice changes fate.
I agree with your last statement slightly, in that it was hard to choose fate or choice. However, where you said fate changes choice and choice changes fate, i believe this in itself is contradictory. How can one being, entity, religious figure, heck even an alien control the daily life and routine of EVERY humans daily life. Are we all little pieces on a giant chess board? Now, whether this is just me being paranoid or actually fact is up for debate, but fate or choice has to be true, it cant be both!
DeleteRishi Gandhi 5th
I think that it is our decisions governing our lives because our decisions is what forms our lives. If fate were to be the one controlling our lives then that would mean there would be no reason for making choices, because no matter what fate would lead us to where we are destined to go.
ReplyDelete-Alyza King 5th period
I totally agree. its the choices you make that will decide your life, not spme invisible force.
Deletei totally DISAGREE. yes choices seem like they govern us but its fate who has it already 'stored' in mind of what's going to happen...gravity, an invisible force, decides whether we're floating in space or on ground so if we can't have an invisbile force(gravity) decide that, then what?
DeleteFirst of all, I totally agree with Alyza. A logical and sound argument :D As for Sairaahhh, no one has ever proven that there is this thing called "fate". If you read my post, I said that fate is just a fancy way of talking about the choices that we make in life. Because we make decisions that impact our lives, it appears that there is this imaginative thing called "fate". And by the way, your gravity example makes no sense and isn't relevant because gravity is explained in science, not philosophy(which is kind of we're talking about), and gravity is an invisible force, true, BUT it's got nothing to do with fate or choices in life. Gravity keeps our feet on the ground, so what? That's science.
DeleteKevin Zhang is talking serious business.
DeleteI agree with Zhang. Until people find out what exactly is "fate" (probably Quantum Entanglement and multiple realities) the people will believe in it, just as they believed the Earth was flat and hell was just under their paper thin earth. It is science that shows us "fate" as statistics and probabilities. "Fate" was also talked about by the Greek people. Were there really gods throwing thunderbolts? Maybe not, most likely static electricity buildup in clouds. Did the Three Fates really exist? Maybe not, it may be just randomness.
"Choices seem like they govern us, but it is fate who has it already 'stored' in mind..." That fate is the results of choices....or people who drop out of school or kill would say it is "fate" and they really mean good, but they couldn't stop it. That kind of talk won't win over a judge.
I agree, our lives are the way they are because we make them that way, not because there's some outside force acting on us. Every choice we make affects our life in some way and that is what takes us down the road of life.
DeleteI believe that our life is governed by fate. The choices we make lead up to our fate, but our fate is already decided. If someone chooses to drink alcohol and drive then their fate might be death, a car accident, or they might even get safely get home. Some people say things are 'destined' to happen...so that means they were already decided, you can say that because of one's choices things happen but it's really fate/destiny (:
ReplyDeleteew nooooo nonononoono it was one's CHOICE to drink alcohol and one's CHOICE to drive right after that. destiny and fate is like a movie thing, not a thing in reality.
Deleteyeah bro but it was destined! if destiny was a movie thing then why do so many people believe in it? then why do people say to people "oh you were destined to be together" yes life is run by our choices but fate is already decided and it is because of FATE that we make our choices!!!!!!
DeleteI agree with you Sairaahhh, i mean sure there are choices we make, but it'll only make the end result come sooner or later or come a different way.. :P
DeleteAs for you Ervin, it's not just movies. It seems like it, but hey look at all the people have near death experiences, they go through something bad, but hey some of them still live, it wasn't their time just yet. Not just movies. Not all things that seem cheesy are in movies.
I believe that your life is your life, and whatever happens is because either you or someone else directly or indirectly cause it to happen.There is nothing forcing to to life a certain life. Is it fate that when you go to a resturant you order a burger? No. it's personal choice. I dont belive that anything is "destined" to happen.
ReplyDeleteForgot to put 1st period at the end lol
Deletei completely agree. life is all about choices and any given choice you make at any given moment could change the course of your life.
Deletei believe that life depends on choice because your life is YOUR life. if you live a life controlled by fate, then your life is Fate's life. fate has nothing to do with your life. It may seem that one and a girl are perfect for each other, but its actually y'alls genes are similar. so in conclusion choice determines your life's outcome.
ReplyDeleteI believe that life is governed by our choices. For example, fate might have it written down that I'm going to school on Tuesday, but I could just kill myself right now if I wanted to and there goes the "prophecy" so to speak. In a way, one could even say that because we make choices in life, it appears as though there a thing called "fate" that determines what we do. So I believe that fate is nothing more than a fancy, delusional way of looking at our choices in life, the choices that WE will choose.
ReplyDeleteKevin Zhang Period 5
I agree!
DeleteI loved you're comparison, it was funny, and very accurate.
I think that fate is just something people use to cover up their mistakes, their humiliation when something goes wrong. They use the word "fate" to shun from their responsibilities.
Okay Kevin, what if the prophecy had said you were going to die tomorrow? How can you prove that this will not happen? If fate were to be true, it will be governing your choices at every moment of your life (with you not noticing at all). Even when you try to avert this terrible crisis, your choices will lead to your demise because fate is governing your choices. Of course, I'm not sitting here advocating that prophecies exist and that they are true (Astrology is not a legitimate field), but what I am trying to say is that fate does exist and governs your choices. and your choices govern your future. So if you wanted to sit at home and do nothing and expect fate to make you successful, that is not true. Because fate led you to the choice of doing nothing, and therefore fate determined your future of being a hobo. All in all, we do have choices, but the choice we choose is always going to be the one fate has in store for us.
DeleteGuys: Fate is simply something one chooses to believe or not to believe. No on can prove that it's really out there.
DeleteI believe that our life is governed by choice. People who believe that life is controlled by fate may say that everything is already planned out and we have no say in what happens in our lives, but I believe that it is our own actions that causes what happens in our lives. No matter what people think, in the end it is through our choices that whatever happens,happens.
ReplyDeleteHiro Chang, Period:5
I agree. Our choices affect who we are, and they are not predetermined.
Deleteyour choice controls what happens. you can choose to study or not study. in the end, you either fail or get the grade you wanted. i think everybody can relate to this. no one can force you to do anything. in the end, it is up to your decisions.
DeleteI believe that our lives are governed by fate. Yes, you make the choices in your life but just as Alan said, those choices were destined for you to make. No matter what choice you make that was the choice fate had planned for you already. Kevin said that if he decided to kill himself, to go against the prophecy of going to school on Tuesday he just changed fate. I completely disagree with that. Fate already knew that he was going to kill himself so he didn't change fate at all; he was just going along with fate. So no matter what you do with your life it has already been mapped out for you and you can't change it no matter how hard you try. Fate is predestined.
ReplyDeleteRebecca Ward
Period 5
I completely disagree. While i believe fate plays a minor role, setting up your predisposition (the family your born into, the genes you get), the rest is up to choice, because while fate can try to steer you one way, if your determined enough fate can't stop you.
DeleteLike for example Kevin could just kill himself some other day or even Monday night because HE'S the one holding the knife (or watever killing tool) not fate.
And I completely disagree with you, Yuxi. You say that besides the family you're born to, and the person you are, the path you take in life is up to the choices you make, because "while fate can try to steer you one way, if you're determined enough fate can't stop you." Fate can't stop you? Merriam Webster's Dictionary defines fate as "an inevitable and often adverse OUTCOME, condition, or END." This means that you can neither avoid fate, nor can you try to resist it. It's an inevitable happening, like death. As for your "example" of Kevin killing himself, you say that "HE'S the one holding the knife, not fate." So the logic behind your claim is that he can decide whether or not to stab himself, therefore his life is determined by his choices. It seems like you're completely disregarding my theory that all his reasoning and logic that ultimately contribute to his final decision are ALL predetermined by fate, MEANING, it was already predetermined whether or not he would decide to kill himself one day or the other. So, in reality, fate WAS holding the knife.
DeleteSo what am I trying to get at? By you acknowledging the EXISTENCE of fate, "...i believe fate plays a minor role..."
You're contradicting everything you say after that sentence.
I can't help feeling there's more to life than just our choices. I mean, yeah it's our choices that choose the path in life we'll take, but I think there's a part in there that's not our own making;I think our lives are governed by fate until a point, and then it'll make brief appearances from that point onwards.So i partly have to agree with rebecca and alan here; but i think that only a certain percentage of our choices are governed by fate
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI believe that our lives are changed by our choices. Fate would be referring to the outcome of your choices and claiming that there was no other way. If you dropped out of school, some would say you were "fated" to fail. It is your choice that you decided to be lazy. Criminals would be "Fated" to kill and harm people, so why would they be punished if "fate" couldn't be changed? It is the choices you make in your life that put you where you are.
ReplyDeletePeriod 1 Christopher Hsu
I feel like our choices are what affects our fate. Some may say that The moment you are born, you have a destiny, and there is no way you can change it. However, I believe that one's fate can be altered, due to their own, OR other's decisions or actions. Even the smallest detail in life can make a big difference.
ReplyDeleteIn the end, though, I guess it's just who you are. Believing in fate is kind of like religion- no one out there can truly tell you if there IS a fate set for you. It's just whether you believe in it or not. It's as simple as that.
~Amber Wang
Period 1
Perfect. Just perfect.
DeleteI agree 100% This is a perfect way to describe how I feel about the question.
DeleteI'm going to have to disagree with your first statement. Maybe my definition of fate is wrong,(I'm using Wikipedia)"Fate" implies predefined and fixed. Basically "Changing one's destiny" is an oxymoron. If it can be changed, it isn't fate.
DeleteI couldn't agree more with your comparison of believing in fate and religion though. Belief in either is based entirely on faith instead of factual evidence. They're both Russell Teapots pretty much, unprovable, irrefutable and completely irrelevant (Hopefully) to any facet of life.
-Zach Tu 1st Period
I completely agree with this! I like the part when you said that each small detail in life can make a big difference. That is a really true statement and made me think about alot of thing. I also agree with you when you said believing in fate is like religion, because not everyone believes in fate and no one can actually tell you if fate is real or not! It's just something that you either believe or don't believe in.
DeleteShelby Stone (1st period)
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFate is defined as the force that predetermines events, so if the question is if fate completely governs us rather than choice, then the answer is of course no. However, if the question is whether our choices play into fate, then the answer is yes. I believe in fate, but I also believe that choice can strongly influence destiny. Maybe my fate is predetermined, maybe there's something that we're all destined to do with our lives, but that's something that we'll never know. However, the fact that whatever we do won't do a thing to change fate, like the King who learned of his preconceived death seems kind of fictional to me. The whole "whatever you do won't change how things play out so you might as well just chill and let it happen" thing has only been shown to us in literature. Our choices do influence fate, because our lives are our own. And if we choose not to be or do something, then odds are we can change at least that. But I'm not saying that sometimes, some things in particular aren't impossible to run away from. It could be true that if something is meant to happen to us, maybe to teach us a lesson or prove something to us or change something irrevocably, then it will happen because we are human and fate is a force, and who are we to stand in the way of fate? The way i look at it, we are pawns in fate's game of lives. Whatever fate wants to happen happens, and no matter how much the chess piece tries to move, it simply can't because it's only a piece of wood in fate's hands.
ReplyDeleteSo i guess what i'm saying is that I'm yes and no. :) I don't think fate can determine who we are, but i also don't think that we can change what happens to us. You can't avoid a car crash if you don't know it's coming. and that's just it. we don't know what fate has planned for us, so there's no way we can stop it. :)
Sam Jreij
I partially agree with what you said. The idea that some things are meant to happen and are determined by fate, I agree with. But if thats true, why can't it be true that other things can affect your fate too? Even the smallest detail, like spending extra time looking for your keys in the morning, can change your entire day and maybe go even as far as to change your life. But I like how you said that we are all pawns in fate's game of our lives. Good answer! :)
DeleteWell, while you guys were discussing your varied opinions, I am wondering something else. Why does it matter which one we believe in? It's all one big circle when you think about it. Yes, your choices clearly control your future, however your choices are controlled by your fate, but then your choices control your fate, etc. It seems meaningless to me why people are arguing and trying to persuade each other to agree with them when there is clearly no right answer. I agree with Amber when she said "it's just whether you believe in it or not." I'm sure you guys are wondering what my answer is and this is it: I believe that this life is controlled by both choice and fate. Because if you think about it, aren't they pretty much the same thing? Please respond if you disagree.I have alot of free time. :)
ReplyDeleteKatie Sheldon Period 5
You ask why does it matter which one we believe in? It doesn't. You say it's meaningless that people are arguing. I strongly disagree. There's a difference between arguing and debating. Arguing is disorganized, mindless yelling. Debating is logical and critical analysis, which is what we're doing here. If people didn't debate certain topics, humanity would never be able to reach a clear decision on anything, thus resulting in the lack of societal progress. As for your "answer" to this question, the position you take is astonishingly paradoxical, thus leaving me no reason to refute your claim. By saying "life is controlled by both choice and fate," you're basically saying: you can control your life... but you can't.
DeleteSo.... No.... They're not the same thing....
Wow.
DeleteJust wow.
I thought that her answer was pretty good Alan.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteOkay, then I'll refute it. Like Shomik told me to.
DeleteYou claim that: fate determines choices, and choices determine fate, therefore choice and fate both determine your life. Fate, as defined by Merriam Webster's Dictionary, is "an inevitable and often adverse OUTCOME, condition, or END." So yes, fate determines choices, as I pointed out in my own observation. BUT how can the choices that have already been predetermined by fate... determine your fate? Your fate was ALREADY determined, so fate is dictating your choices. To help you better understand, let's go back to my analogy of a weather forecast. FATE is the rain that the weatherman is predicting. CHOICES are all the elements that contribute to causing rain. You're saying choices determine fate, so if you translate this into my analogy, you're saying: rain-causing elements cause rain. Of course your choices determine your fate. By claiming that "fate determines choices, and choices determine fate," the position you're ACTUALLY taking is that fate determines your life, contrary to your claim that both fate AND choices determine your life, THUS proving your claim as a contradictory statement. You have to take one side or the other; you CAN'T choose both. By choosing both, you're saying that, as I pointed out earlier, "you can change your life... but you can't." When you take the side of choice determine your life, you're assuming you, yourself, can determine how your life plays out. When you take the side of fate determining your life, you're assuming that the way your life plays out has already been predetermined; you're just there to live it out. Therefore, your claim has been rendered invalid.
Alan. How much time are you spending on this?
DeleteEnough to prove wrong people wrong.
DeleteIt's an opinion.
DeleteYou can't be wrong.
Okay, so I see a pretty obvious trend going on here with the "fate and our choices both determine our future" idea. Therefore, I am going to try to provide a new perspective on the idea by providing a scientific analogy to back up this claim. First, let's draw a simple analogy to the concept of genes. We recently learned in Biology about how our genes determine our traits. However, we also found out that the environment can influence how these traits are expressed. For example, a plant may have the gene to be tall, but the environment may not provide enough water or light for this to happen. We can easily apply this to fate and our decisions. The genes represent fate, and the environment represents our decisions. Therefore, our decisions influence how our fate is "expressed." So, basically, fate gives us a path to live, but our decisions determine how we walk this path.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone wants to hear how dimensions can back up this claim, you can reply.
You are so...funny Shomik.
DeleteBut i agree(:
I said that choice governed our life, but this is a very good explanation and I can see where people saying fate (somewhat) governs our life are coming from.
DeleteNice job :D
Definately agree! Your choice CAN affect your fate.
Deleteperfectly stated shomik..your faith can be changed by your choice or your choice can be changed by your faith. u need to not just rely on faith but the choices you make will help lead you
DeleteOkay so I just read through some of the older posts as well and I must say that Allen said exacty what I was thinking .. He just said it better :P ... And I agree with him completely . Well ... I did until I read some of the other posts which confused me and got me thinking.... Now I feel as of both opinions make sense but I feel like a part of me still believes in fate. I mean.. Like when humanity began... The first few people on this earth were different from one Another... Some were rich and some were not . This was not up to them; not in their control. But mere fate. Destiny that has been planned by an exterior more supreme force which some of you may think of as God... Okay .. So I just talked to my dad about this for a while and well he says (and I kinda agree with him in a way) that you are born with knowledge; with a mind. Your birth is fate, fate that your parents were gonna get married and have you , but now youre born with this brain filled with something that makes you do sensible things and helps you know the difference between right and wrong.. Now it's up to you to choose the right or the wrong because if we started thinking that fate would bring out a certain outcome even if we just sit their with our hands in our laps then we wouldn't get as far as as have now. But I still think that there is something that drives us to do those things. Like imagine of you were to build something that would work on it's own. You would know what it's going to do because yore the one who designed it but this thing that you just designed works on it's own to get to a certain outcome. Like you know those robots that we can programme with this software thing.. You put the input and output of te function in the software and then the robot works on it's own to get from that input to that output.. And no matter what action it does its gonna end up in the output you designed for it . I think it works with us humans thAt way too... Like we are the robots and our knowledge and our brain is the thing carrying out the functions and God is our controller or programmer. I hope that makes sense..
ReplyDeleteWhenever someone makes a choice, even one that he/she deems random, one can argue that the person was predisposed to picking one option over the other and therefore fated to one path. So what if somebody wrote a program to, for every action they performed, picked one possible choice completely randomly? As a naturalist, I am inclined to believe that there isn't a magical supernatural invisible wizard fairy that tips the probability in favor of some predetermined pattern determined by some greater magical supernatural invisible wizard fairy a really long time ago. Any "destiny" or "fate" can always be argued to simply be a coincidence.
ReplyDeleteEvery rational thinking part of my brain tells me that destiny is a lie until I considered all of our insignificance. Yes, you do have a choice whether you eat at this restaurant of that restaurant. Yes you do have a choice whether you drop out of school or not. But the impact these choices have on the world or our species isn't even small. It's nonexistent. In the same way you wouldn't consider the choice of a dust mite in the corner of your room, the choices you make don't really change anything outside of your little bubble. Is it possible that we aren't governed by individual fate, but rather fate of a collective species or planet? It does seem to me that we humans are heading down a course that seems pretty darn predetermined, one that is completely untouchable by any choice you or I make.
So to answer the question, I believe that this "Fate" fellow has far too much on his schedule to meddle in the lives of every single pathetically insignificant cluster of organic material.
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ReplyDeleteI think that fate governs our life...but our choices do play a role in life. I think fate governs our life to the point that there will be a specific time we die, we marry, we love, etc. Basically, it governs important things that will help to create a domino resulting in all those things i mention. I mean, if you think about it, yeah car accident, person drinks alcohol, it was their decision, but there are instances when because of something else, will cause that one person to drink, while being upset, they go for a drive... The result is determined by fate. Some results: 1. Death 2. Accident, but still alive 3. Not getting caught, while getting to destination safely. But if their suicidal... It's destined for them to get into the situation that made them suicidal, thus resulting in death by purposely ending their life. It doesn't seem reasonable to many, because people want proof, but if you think about it, it kinda is fate... It's the choices that will effect how soon or how the end result will happen.. Choice does play a role, but they don't matter as much as what it will result in because of fate.. The end :)
ReplyDelete-JENNNY AYROOSOO! 5th Period
Life is full of choices but I believe that in the end there is a fate already set up for us. I think that the choices that we make are already predestined for us. Personally, I think that choice helps you get to your fate but ultimately fate will have its way. It's like fate is the ocean and all of our choices are the little rivers that flow into the ocean. The choices (little rivers) all lead to one fate (ocean) but it is just your choices that one makes that decides how you're going to get to your fate.
ReplyDeleteConnie Cheng :D 5th period
I agree with Connie. We can't decide our fate, but our choices can help us get there. Your metaphor of fate and choices is really good.(I honestly wouldn't have thought of it.)
Delete-Quyen Mai (1st period)
I personally don't have much faith in the power of fate. Life isn't a pre set plan that you have no choice but to fulfill; it's what you make it! It's based on choices supremely, especially the little ones. Most people only think of the big decisions we make, such as buying a car or getting married, but they never think about how stopping to grab a glass of orange juice before school made you two minutes behind schedule and caused you to avoid that bus that would have killed you had you been there.
ReplyDeleteAnother big thing that comes up with the subject of fate is love. There are many out there who believe in finding true love at first sight, and I am not one of those people. I do, however, believe that when you meet someone you can feel an instant connection and attraction and perhaps "feel" you are meant to be, but true love is based on more than physical attraction. It's about building a relationship built on trust and mutual passion and understanding for one another. While I do have some faith in that there is a special someone for everybody out there, I feel people rush into things a lot because they believe that their partner is "the one", only to find out that their so called true love wasn't as wonderful as they thought they were.
Life is based on your choices and decisions, not of some powerful force who dictates it for you. Maybe fate brought a couple together, but it did not make the man buy the ring or the woman say yes. Fate doesn’t decide what college you attend; you do, and fate cannot punish you for attempting to defeat it. There is no such thing as fate, only a complicated web of decisions we as humans have made.
Caroline Love, 5th period
I would first like to say that I agree with you about how our choices determine our life, and Life is what we make of it. On the issue you present about how love is not because of faith, but because you choose to build a relationship with that person, I agree once more. We choose how our realtionships with others go, whether it ends with them being built up, or torn down.
DeleteI believe that our own actions determine how we shall do in life. Our quality of life is determined by our character and the principles that we follow. If we pursue success then we will achieve it. Our lives are essentially giant if-then situations. If we do x, then y will happen. If we study hard, then we will be smart. The knowledge just doesn't appear in our head because of "fate." We work to achieve it. Our own morals and actions ultimately determine what we do with our lives and how successful it is. And I think to say that people are already set out for either failure or success ultimately leads to laziness and the devaluing of someone.
ReplyDeleteJacob Ruiz, 1st period
I agree because if we don't aim for success, then we will obviously not achieve it. If we choose to stay at home all day and not do anything, success will not reach us. No celebrity is going to knock on your door and give you an acting role with a large salary just because of "fate". If we choose to do something, then something will happen, and the outcomes will vary each time.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete^forgot to write my period #.
DeleteThe word fate is defined as the principle of which things in general are believed to come to be as they are or events to happen, basically your destiny. The definition of choice is the power of choosing between something you and what you don’t. I believe that our life is based on our fate and our choices. There are those people who think their lives are planned by God and those who think that their decisions choose their life for them. And I can see it go either way. God knows what he wants to happen to us to be in the future. Sometimes yes, it might be fate that someone killed you. But that’s how God made us. Now your choices are what you choose to do in your life. It might change your fate, it might not. It just depends on what your choices are. For example, if you chose to be an alcoholic, then that is fine. But will it change your fate? Maybe. People always tell me “They do it because it’s their destiny.” But is it really? Finding out if your choices or your fate determines your life is basically asking yourself, “Which came first, the chicken or the egg?” No one knows exactly what governs our life, but different people believe different things. That’s why I believe that fate governs our life, BUT our choices do affect our fate.
ReplyDelete-Quyen Mai (1st period)
Well, in my opinion, life is governed by choice. The choices we make help us become what we turn out to be. I don't think there's a "foreseen fate" that ends up being what we actually are. This sort of thing is only in myths and fairy tales. Also, in fairy tales, there are people who read your fate and prophecies, but do those exist in real life? If not, why should fate exist?
ReplyDeleteAnyway, whatever we choose leads us to separate outcomes. You can choose to go to the store before going to the library, and end up bumping into someone you know at the store, but if you choose to go to the library first, then you won't bump into that same person at the same time in the store. This shows that our choices govern our life, and not fate.
Ethan Lau, 1st period
I agree with what you said about having different outcomes for different choices. You can make different choices in life to avoid certain outcomes.Two completely different choices can't give you the same outcome.
Deletewell even though I do support your side, one could argue that it was fate that your friend was at the same place you chose to go.
DeleteI believe life is governed by our own choices rather than fate. I don't believe in fate because I find it hard to believe that my life is somehow mapped out before I live it. Everyone makes their own decisions and that's what causes the events in our life to happen. So if I can control my decisions, I can control my own life and how I choose to live it.
ReplyDeleteBrendan Ok, 5th period
Sadly, I have to disagree with you. I believe that choice doesn't exist, but that is what we are told to keep us from knowing the truth and living disappointing lives. Take this for example. When your parents explained to you how physics worked and that no you couldn't fly like Superman, you were probably disappointed. To keep us from having that same feeling of disappointment, we trick ourselves into believing that there is no such thing as fate and instead believe that life is governed solely by the choices that we make.
DeleteDaniel Villar
--5th Period
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI agree with Brendan. I don't see how fate could determine us before we are even born -- believing in fate is like believing in superstitions and fortune tellers who supposedly tell us what will happen to us but everyone knows those "claims" never happen. And Daniel though you make a good point, I disagree. Take for example, intelligence (or really any non physical trait). It has been said that some people are just born naturally bright and zoom right through things but is also determined by environment and work ethic -- those who work hard and make an effort (maybe if that is even just reading a thousand books)and those who grow in environment's that encourage knowledge. Intelligence is NOT just based on if you have it or not -- there are thousands of examples in history that prove so, even Albert Einstein wasn't very bright as a child, but look at the contributions he's made! Fate does not determine who we are and what we do -- we do!!
DeleteIn my opinion, our life is not determined by fate. Life is full of choices, and those choices reflect on who you are and what you do with your life. People make good decisions, and some people make bad ones. I don't believe that anyone has a set path that they are "destined" to follow. You personally choose which path you would like to take in life, your fate can't make that decision for you.
ReplyDeleteShelby Stone (1st period)
I definitely agree with you! Although fate is a part of our life, I beleive its determined by the choices we make.
DeleteI completely agree that life is not determined by fate! You make your own choices which effect what may or may not happen in the future. Especially in highschool the people who make good decision, end up having true friends, and a good reputation, but those who make bad choices are screwed, unless they are given a chance to prove themselves. You deffinantly are always in control of what path you take!
Delete-malia(:
I believe that our lives are governed by fate, but our fate depends on the choices we make. It seems hard to believe, but it's really not if you realize that there is only one timeline of reality, unless someone invents a time machine, and that reality is affected by our decisions. For example, if Romeo had decided that he wasn't going to get involved with Juliet, then yes, his fate would have been different, but that never would have happened just because of the kind of person he was. There are so many books about someone who tries to stop their destiny from happening, but the truth is that none of us will ever know what our destinies are, so we would have no reason to go against what we would normally do to try and change them.
ReplyDelete-Kelsey Pownell, 5th period
interesting observation! and great way to put it.
DeleteOur lives are ruled by fate and other greater forces at play. I know this may sound weird, but I believe in the Matrix's explanation. In your life, you have been made to complete a certain task. Call it fate call is destiny or call it the Matrix that uses humans as their power source, all life is part of a bigger process. Though it may seem that we make choices every day, we feel confusion, and love towards the things we love, I believe that fate controls every aspect of your life but leads us to believe that what we do are governed by our "choices." We are not automated machines with no control over our actions, however; fate and destiny is integrated so well into our lives that we never acknowledge it. Before you are born, every action you will take in your life is predetermined. Whether it be who we are to marry in our lives or something simple as knowing what the next word of this post is going to be, fate governs everything.
ReplyDeleteFate, however, only governs our actions. Similar to a JAVA computer program, our code of executable commands are inputted into us, but there is no way of knowing how the computer will react. The things that we feel in life are reactions to the externally or internally preprogrammed stimuli in our environment. In 5 grade, I knew I was determined by fate to fall and get 5 stitches on my knee. The reaction is the immense amount of pain I felt. This complex mixture of greater forces are what make life so beautiful and engaging.
-Daniel Villar, 5th Period
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
ReplyDeleteI took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
~Robert Frost
The way I see it, fate is based off of choices. Imagine Robert Frost's line, "Two roads diverged in a wood". The decision triggers the fate, and everything after that is the fate caused by the choice. The choice can be anything as small as what shirt to wear to school, or as large as what career path to follow. The only difference between Robert Frost's image and mine is that the "roads" are constantly shifting. There are multiple ways that a fate could be changed. A person's environment can affect the choices a person makes. For example, stereotypes say that people who come from "darker" parts of a city will be less likely to succeed and more likely to get into trouble with gambling, drugs, or alcohol. The people that a person surrounds themselves with could also affect the choices they make. People can meet and change each other for the better or for the worse, forever changing their fate with the decision to associate oneself with that group of people. From my earlier example, if someone classified in part of that stereotype refused to end up that way, they could immerse themselves with people unlike what the person was previously companied with and therefore change their fate. But who's to say that that wasn't the original plan in the first place based off of a previous decision? Who's to say it's not an ongoing cycle? But that's the point... It is. You will keep finding yourself at "two roads diverged in a wood", but that's life: fate based off of choices.
Samantha Hartsfield, 1st period
I found it pretty cool how you compared Robert Frost's poem to this topic of fate and choice. I also agree with you that fate is based off choices and that small choices make a difference too.
DeleteI think life is ultimately decides by fate but some of the choices we have in life can alter our destiny. Your life is planned by destiny, but i think it's vey loosely planned to where big challenges we go through can affect it. For example, Romeo and Juliet could have made decisions which could have altered the story and maybe even alter their death. I also agree with Daniel viler from 5th period when he says you've been given a task to complete in your life. I think that it very true and no matter what decisions we choose in life we will ultimately fufill our task in life. The choices we make just alters everything around it.
ReplyDeleteKaitlin Gascoyne 1st period :)
Life is governed by our own choices and I think fate is merely an excuse to give up and pretend there's nothing else you can do as an easy way out.
ReplyDeleteIf you look at todays society especially, there's people who grew up without anything but they still find a way because life is ruled by your own choices and what you want to do with yourself.
-Yuxi period 5
Well I wouldn't say it's an excuse really. However those people that repeat OVER AND OVER that "my fate is set in hand I can't change it" are annoying. But you raise a good point with the giving up part. Now that I think about it a lot of people who are too lazy to try and undo something bad they did or something just say "whatever, my fate is set there's nothing I can do to change it" and that is wrong too. But I just don't see it as an excuse in my mind.
DeleteKen Tsao (Period 5)
Our life is absolutely governed by our own choice. Afterall, we sit here and write up this question for truly what? To get a good grade in english -- in hopes of pleasing you parents or most likely just trying to do well in high school to eventually go to college and have a successful life and job. The question truly speaks for itself when we examine the world around us – a one full of competition. We compete and strive for the best in hopes for living a better life later on and we are exactly told this by our parents when we grow up – that it is your decisions that alter you life and that you are the one that makes the foundation of what you will become.
ReplyDeleteLikewise, in Romeo and Juliet, there is truly no difference – it was their own choice that led to their destruction. They decided to fall madly in love. They decided to get married overnight. And they decided to kill themselves.
Overall, our decisions mark our lifes. And where would we really be if we thought fate determined everything? Why would anyone even try?
Elysia Gao
Period 5
Although I beleive in fate and destiny, I also believe that the decisions we make in life can definetely change what exactly our fate is. I think that our life is governed by our choices and that our fate relies on which ones we make.You could have been destined to be very sucessful later in your life, but a bad choice you made in maybe highschool or college could have changed that. I also beleive that the role fate plays in your life is like you being destined to getting married and going to college. But who you marry and what college you attend is the choice you make, wether its a bad decision or a good one.
ReplyDelete-Kendall Lockhart, 1st period
I completely agree with you! You're example was really effective and explains why choices shapes our lives.
DeleteI SOOOOOO AGREE :) you make a great point.
DeleteThe definition of fate is "something that unavoidably befalls a person" and think some of you who say fate governs our choices is getting fate and our future mixed up. Otherwise, that doesn't make any sense.
ReplyDeleteOk. I have another way to put this which I hope makes more sense... So fate/God/destiny/magicalpowersomewhereoutthere (whatever you wanna call it) plans or sets out the main or big situations for us. And us humans are born with a mind to think with that consists of common sense.. Which we are to use in those pre planned situations.. So like ... I guess God gives us a beginning for each situation but we are supposed to use our knowledge/wisdom/brains to make choices and write our own endings to the situation... But I still believe that death is something that we don't have any control over whatsoever. Also I kind of disagree with Elysia about the love part. I think that falling in love with someone depends wholey and solely on one's feelings and emotions- things that are beyond our control. Love is not a matter of decision. Maybe that's why you don't say "oh yeah... I decided to love him". No... It's: "fell in love with him" because you just do... Or you don't... Theirs no choice. But whether you shall marry the particular person you have fallen in love with or not is a matter of decision. - a decision that could affect your and their life. I think that Romeo and Juliet killing themselves is both fate And choice because it is fate or the kind of helpless situation they were in that made them take such life-changing (or life-ending) decisions. I mean most or some of us think of their suicides as stupid decisions but maybe that's because we know that Juliet wasn't actually dead .. But look at it from romeo's p.o.v .... The love of his life was dead... They'd just gotten married and had prolly thought and dreamed a lot about their future together but all of a sudden everything he'd wanted was gone . ... So basically what I'm saying is that I think that in the case of Romeo and juliets death, fate and choice both played a role...
ReplyDeleteOh yeah.. - Mahnoor khan 5th period .
ReplyDeleteAnd ok.. For people who don't belive in fate at all... Are you saying that if we make good choices and healthy choices and avoid all possible elements of danger in our life, we will avoid death? If life is completely based on choices then what is it that causes death? I mean... The world didn't just pop our of the solar system or something right? Yeah you could go and explain it the scientific way but I mean there is some way this whole universe, this whole existence started right? I believe that there is some sort of superior force out there that controls a lot of aspects of our lives... For example - death. (5th period Mahnoor khan)
ReplyDeleteIn way your right, and agree with you about death and the universe. It really gets me thinking!
DeleteZayesha
OO good point! there is no way (yet) to prove your arguement is valid or invalid. I do not, personally, think that death should count as fate. To me it is more fact, but I can see what you were getting at, but to say that death is fate would be like being born is fate, it happens to everyone at somepoint. But the main reason I say death is not fate is because if it were fate, it would be written in the stars how, when, and where you are going to die, which you have the ability to change if you commit suicide before fate says you will.
Delete-Janine Fisher (Class 5)
after reading this, i kind of want to change my answer, ahahaha. yo are right, but throughout life, we still have to make our own choices. okay, some things moght be determined by fate, but others are the decisions we make.
DeleteI don't think that our lives are governed by either fate or our choices. I believe in fate but I think that our choices are a factor in determining our destiny. It's your choices that make you who you are and determine how your life is carried on. So really, your choices can change your fate. In a sense you can shape your own destiny. But this isn't always true. If your fate changes, it probably doesn't just affect your life, it might affect the lives of others that you may already know or were destined to meet but never did. And if not for our choices, we could all have had our fates intertwined at some point but not have known it. So I think both play a major role together in how not just your life, but other people's lives are played out.
ReplyDelete-Robaa 1st period :)
I agree, and i like how you said that our choices are what shapes our destiny. But fate does sometimes have a big role! '
Delete~~~zayesha(:
I agree Robaa. Like in life nothing is set in stone and our lives can go on any which way we want them too. Nothing determines anything.
DeleteI feel like your choices are what leads to your fate. Fate and destiny are mostly in books and we don't exactly know what our fate is, so i believe your choices are what determines your fate and destiny. Prophecies don't exactly exist in our modern life so we don't know what we were meant to do or meant to be. Even if you do believe in fate and destiny, i feel that your decisions can really change your future. Like if you were destined to be the king but you made a bad decision such as running away, it can really affect your future. But some may believe that you were meant to choose something that was supposed to lead to your fate. But i personally think that your choices and decision can really change everything.
ReplyDeleteZayesha Hasan 1st period
(:
I believe that our lives are governed by the choices we make. For example, if someone was destined to be a successful, but then stubble upon an obstacle and make the wrong decision; ultimately the result becomes altered as well. The choices we make is what shapes our lives and who we are.
ReplyDelete-Christina Lieng (1st period)
The problem with your situation is that you stated they are destined to become successful. If someone made the wrong choice and did not become successful, then your situation is a paradox, and you live in 2 realities. In one reality you are successful, which would be how the prophet or other source would know your destiny. In the other reality you make that wrong decision and be left unsuccessful. Therefore your state ment is invalid.
Delete-Janine Fisher (5th class)
What do you guys think of the idea a out our choices being pre-destined as well? - Mahnoor khan 5th period :)
ReplyDeleteI believe that our lives are governed by our choices. I believe that the choices in your life are what make you who you are today. There is a different outcome for every choice that you make therefore you can have an infinite amount possibilities to live your life, but YOU make your own decisions and that affects who you are as a person today. I don't believe in fate because the fact of our fate being controlled by some otherworldly force is complete nonsense.
ReplyDelete-Kevin Le(1st period)
I agree with Kevin, nothing can control our future except for our choices now.
DeleteWow, guys! All of your comments have been so intriguing, impressive, and powerful. I am sp proud to see you all thinking and putting those thoughts into such masterful words.
ReplyDeleteYou're even using effective EVIDENCE to back up your thoughts. I love it!! You're all amazing writers. Own the title: you are WRITERS! I hereby dub Alan Lo Devil's Advocate. LOL! Great debating, sir! Great job, everyone! LOVE Y'ALL!!!
Teach me how to be "sp proud".
DeleteIt's difficult, but I think you can do it.
DeleteForgive my atrocious typo. MY BAD!!!
In plots of fairytales and fantasies, it is commen for a superstition to prove ifalliable. The thing, though, that we as people need to understand is that we have control over every one of our actions. When someone tells me "I could never kill a man, because my beliefs say I can't" I have to correct them. There belifes do not control their actions, it is their willingness to listen to other people. The only reason why you can't do something, is because you can not physically capeable of doing it (hence why we can't fly.) Now, if someone were to tell me "I can not kill this person with a knife because I can not physically get the leverage and strength it would require." Then I would accept their statement.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you! One thing that people forget is that when people say they "can't" do something, they really mean they "won't" do something. The reasons for the won't range from beliefs, and something that someone else has told them they cannot do. We can do everything, but we won't agree to do everything!
Deleteoh, this is Janine Fisher- 5th period
ReplyDeleteI think that it's the actions and choices we make in life that determine our fate, yet I also think that you can choose whether to let fate rule you or you rule your own fate. But I also don't think that we are in full control of it. We can make actions to lead up to our fate but it isn't predetermined until you make the decisions that make it the way it is. What you do determines if you can control your own fate or if you're just going to let fate control you. It's like... I heard a story somewhere (or it was a movie) where this guy got some fortune or something saying he was going to die so he did all this other stuff to try and keep himself from dying and in doing that he died... confusing. Right?
ReplyDeleteKen Tsao (Period 7)
WOOPS. I meant period 5. Sorry xD
Deletewow Ken...what he did (he dumb guy in your example) is because he chose to do those stuff that ended up killing him. rather than just living life to the fullest.
Deletei think the choices we make and the things we do in life are governd by choice..the choices we make will make up who you are and for the people who belive in faith why eat healthy y take care of yourself y make good grades if faith decides what youll be. i have to disagree because its the pathway you choose to be sucsefull is your owns so there is no point of relying on faith and if faith decides your actions than there would be no point of living...ZAIN 5TH
ReplyDeleteFate is something that are determined by choice. the choices you make everyday. the actions YOU decided to take. those contributed toward what will happen in the future. Your choices makes the largest differences yet they are the smallest things. another thing that can be included between these two, fate or choice, is chance. your choice makes a different, and the CHANCE of what will be the consequence will determined how things would end.
ReplyDeletelien 5 period
for example. YOU decided to buy a lottery ticket. and you just happened to be the luckiest man that day. fate isnt what caused you to become a millionaire, but rather, the chance and the possibility that you are the winner of that lottery. most of ya'll here are saying, OUR LIFE IS COMPLETELY DEPENDS ON OUR CHOICES. well i have to disagree with that because, even if you worked so hard to succeed in life and you are about to have your dream job but suddenly, a piano falls on you. that's not entirely your fault because you decided to walk that day. it just happened by chance that the friggin string was loose. :)...idk why i came up with that example.....make sense in my head :3
DeleteSo we're stuck in a circle?
ReplyDeleteHmm...there must be something that lets us out of it!
I think of these two things as two powerful beings,
but in my mind,one has to be of a higher ranking than the other. Otherwise, we'd be in a continous circle that I mentioned above...
Thought: Do you think they sometimes come into conflict with each other?
It's really hard to decide whether or not life is governed by fate or by choice. One could easily say that our destiny is chosen at the start and that we are unable to change it, yet at the same time, or choices is what opens the doors for us to continue our destiny. Simply put, our destiny needs to be pushed by our own choices. How does that sound? Our choices affects our destiny? Well, then I guess people would agree that our choices affect our destiny; however, our choices often affects others' views on us, but one can say the same for others. You have to see other people as...well, people. Whoaaaa, humanity. That's right.Think about it. If we make our own destiny and fate with our own choices, does that mean others will make their own destiny alongside ours? Oh snap. How much work is that for the Destiny Accountant manager? No, our choices affect others' views on us thus changing their choice of actions and emotions toward us THEREFORE MAKING EARTH A FREE-ROAM GAME THAT, obviously, JESUS IS PLAYING ON HIS PSBOX 3. Thing is, predetermined destiny is also a very believable and viable answer to this question...thing. I don't remember the question anymore. For example, the things that Ben does. Why does he do them? Well, if you ask him, he'll tell you, "I haz a major brain disorder that causes me to answer your question with an answer that makes no sense because the answer changed into a question while I was asking it, right?" And I'd say he's right. But you see, that's just the thing. My outbursts in class, 50% of the time, are for getting attention and laughter; I like laughter from teenagers. BUT WAIT A MINUTE. What about the other 50%? I don't really know. Sentences, that I wouldn't normally say around...girls, often slip out at random times. WHOA WAIT. I don't know why I do something? PREACHER SAYS: DESTINY! Here's the thing though. How is it destiny when I can sometimes stop myself from saying something...random? Das rite, it ain't destiny, unless you want to consider the part that I learn how to control my speech part of my destiny...then it would be destiny.
ReplyDeleteStill, even in Julio and Romiet, one could say that the outcome was from their own choices. HOWEVER, I declare...thumb war. No, I think that their destiny was planned out because THEY AIN'T REAL, DOODS. Shake obviously shook his little sphere with little slips of paper with ideas written on them and took one out and wrote a play. Dur. So, if this guy wrote the play, he controls the story therefore, he is the god of the play. Dur agayn. So, he's the god of the play AND he wrote the play...this only means that...HEPREDICTSTHEFUTUREWITHAMAGICBALLTHATHEKEEPSUNDERHISBED. OR, he simply just wrote a story and already knew what was going to happen. This proves two things: destiny and dramatic irony. That man was probably cracking up when wrote the story. "OH LOLOLOL, YOU GUYS ARE GONNA COMMIT SUICIDE! PFFFFFFFFFFT ROFLCOPTER."
ROFL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL:ROFL
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...L..../.............[`\........
..LOL===...........[__|.......
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But yeah, I'm done.
Also, CAN'T READ GYPSY FONT OMGDOUBLEYOUTEEEFF.
Ben is Jammin' and Nguyenin'
You obviously jelly.
Therefore, 1st period.
And one last thing? I tripped on my lollerskates.
ROLLING ON FLOOR LAUGHING CAN'T OPERATE PROPERLY TIL EYES REFOCUS.
Life depends on the choices we make. We get consequences or rewarded for the choices we make in life. There is no prophecy that tells us what will happen in the future like we see in books, our future depends on our choices we make right now or later on.
ReplyDelete-Reba, 1st period
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I believe in choice and not so much "destiny". Our lives occurs due to a series of CHOICES that we make and not like this "timeline" that's written out for you from the beginning of your existence. One may ask, "But doesn't it make you wonder whether or not you were BOUND to do whatever you've done?"
ReplyDeleteGod gave man free will.
We make our own choices and do what makes us happy and comfortable. Your life happens as it comes from what you decide to do with it.
SO,
Shakespear was simply writing a tragedy in which two lovers meet their death due to THEIR OWN CHOICE to take their lives.
~Bessie Varghese~
1st Period
Okay guys, let's see if this helps. Imagine life as a river. This river starts when you are born. From then, every time you make a decision, the river "branches" into two or more paths. Eventually, when we look at this river from above, we see a gigantic branching river. This is the map of all possible lives we could lead. Now, fate, as Elysia stated, is "something that unavoidably befalls a person." Therefore, one of these many paths can be regarded as "fate." As we go through life, there will be several choices, however the choice we pick is predetermined by fate. Through this analogy, we can see how fate governs our lives. (The other branches of the river are what people call "parallel universes")
ReplyDeleteAnother example - Imagine two friends are at a bar, and both get very drunk. They both decide to drive their own cars home instead of catching a cab. They both take similar roads. One encounters no obstacles and reaches home safely. The other, however, happens to hit and kill a pedestrian that was walking across the street. Tell me this: they both made the same choices, so why were the outcomes completely different? Our choices clearly do not govern our lives, but the predetermined idea called fate does.
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Deletewhat if the river dries up O.o no jk, but i agree with you on the river analogy. however, i believe that we are the ones that choose which turns to take in this river system, instead of fate. in my mind, imagining that all of my choices are already predetermined is a little bit unnerving...
Delete-Chris Chiu 5th
yes, it is a big river.
Deleteand when the river dries up, you die.
yes, it is basically your choice about which route to take in the river, however fate has already determined which path you are going to take. You obviously are only going to live one life, and all fate has to do is choose a path. That is why fate determines your life.
Who cares if the river dries up? [Heads up, I'm not on any side] What if we could dig a canal that directed the water back to a previous point of the river? For example, let's say you branch out at Point A. Later, however, you have come back to Point A and taken another branch. Is this time travel? That was a rhetorical question. Of course, you may attempt to counter this statement by saying that the redirecting of the river is impossible because straying off the path is against nature. Oh really now? When you branch off from the main river, isn't that against nature? Yes, you might say that it is a waterfall that cannot go back up, but if you were to divide the main current into branches, you would need something in the middle to split the current somehow, and I don't think splitting a waterfall is perfect. There would probably be drops of water flying everywhere. What if the main current, A, split into B and C, and part of B's water sometimes dripped or flowed into C? Does that mean that at the same time we live our lives, we have a duplicate living in another dimension living the other branch? Even if you did go back and try to argue that if the main stream was on an inclined slope and was not a raging waterfall and that the branching off and looping life again was impossible, how would you explain the natural branching? You would have to say that either 1) the water divided vertically, which would result in deprivation of water on the top stream, or 2) there is only one stream. Now, you could've just said that there was only one stream when you first posted, but no. You see, if it were just one stream, then there would only be one path; no other choices of fate would be involved. You said this, but used the example of multiple choices by fate, itself. If fate had choices, does that mean fate is also living under fate? Oooh, fateception.
DeleteLast argument, don't worry. You said, "and when the river dries up, you die." Are you implying that there are other rivers for other people, too? BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE. Let's say fate had limited space, and fate probably does, would fate have to squeeze peoples' rivers together because of the large influx of BABEHs? If fate did, this would intertwine lives together causing MOAR BABEHs. The final result would be a 50 km long beam of energy called the Kamehamekah.
I believe that our life is goverend by our choices. Yes i do think that fate has something to do with it but i dont think that it decides or entire life. My choices have definatly made a difference in my life and i know that if i had made different ones, it wouldnt be what it is today. Who knows what it would be, that's somehting that i would want to see. Like in star trek how there are different dimensions. hahahaha Geeky sorry, i know! :) But i think that if it was just fate decidin then our life wouldnt be what we wanted. Because our choices make our own fate, so how do you know if the fate you end up with is the one you want? If you didnt make any decisions in your life, who knows what you would be doing right now? You may have gone to HSPVA (high school peforming visual arts) or dropped out and began working at your parents company or whatever. It's your choices and your life. It's what you try to make it.
ReplyDeleteI think our life is goverened by the choices we make. I believe that with the choices that we make, we are able to choose our destiny if we try hard enough. The choices that we have made define us as who we currently are and most likly who we will end up as. For example, what if there was someone who ate unhealthy foods everyday? The effect of that would be that he would eventually grow some kind of disease and die. Even if he didn't choose to die, the actions that he did would've led to those results. But what if one day he decided to eat healthy? The choice he made to eat healthy things would then allow him a higher chance of living. One could say, what if it was fate that decided that he would start to eat healthy, but then, what would be the point of living a life like a puppet when your fate is already deteremined and all you're doing is playing a chosen role?
ReplyDeleteAllen Hsiao period 1
in life, we control our own life. it is our choice to choose a route to take. you either take the easy or hard route. we can choose to stay up late, then regret it, or go to sleep early and wake up refreshed. fate lays out our choices, but it is our job to choose one. though, many people believe that God lays out their life in front of them. that is true, but we still have to make our own choices. no one can control your life. all decisions are up to you. things don't just happen over night. you have to work hard to achieve your goals. it is your choice on how hard you work. therefore, i think that life in governed by fate, yet it is our choice to fulfill it.
ReplyDeleteKeegan Pho- 5th period.
Fate is not an act nor a doing. It's a feeling. That feeling of defeat. When you do something you know you shouldn't have done, that regret. I've been told by my grandpa since I was little that "Happiness is a choice" and I believed it, but as time goes went on and I grew older I realized nothing is governed by choices. I don't choose to get bad grades, or live the life I live, or make the mistakes I've made. That was all planned before I had even came to exsistence. Everything happens for a reason and though our choices may help lead us in a better path, our life will continue on the way it's meant to be.
ReplyDeleteSariah Khalil- 1st Period.
ok for all of you evil people that love disagreeing(is that how you spell it?) with me....mmhhmmm...yaa life is made of decisions and choice....but its governed by fate AND choices :D final conclusion...kind of... (:
ReplyDeleteoohh im in 1st period...sorry Ms.McCoun i didnt write it on my other comments n stuff (:
ReplyDeleteWe have the power to chose our path, which in turn leads to more choices opening up.If our life was guided by fate, what choices would we have? The everyday decisions that we make, influence our lives greater than we can ever imagine. Therefore, our future is solely dependent on our actions, not something as foolish as so called "fate".
ReplyDeleteRishi Gandhi - 5th period
I think that our lives are whatever we make them. I think our choices make us everything we are or could possibly be. No great people were ever born great people, it wasn't easy but they changed the world when the odds were against them like Martin Luther King Jr. or others like him, but I have to say that the path of life is much easier for some people. Some people have much more obstacles in their lives than they deserve, but that's not fate--that's life, life is unfair, but we have to work to overcome whatever obstacles despite how easy it is for others, so in the end it all comes down to choices.
ReplyDeleteyea i think your right. Fame, honor, and prestige are only gained, never bought or inherited. A poor man, does have the ability to succeed in life, only if he applys himself and works to pursues a goal, yes it is easier for a richer person to succeed, but being poor and deprived of something will always give a person a stronger will to get to the top, and these choices are solely based on our decisions as we walk on the road of life. By: Marc Gebara
DeleteOh and this is Sofia Gonzalez-5th period!
ReplyDeletehere's what i think. When God created man he had laid out a general yet unique story for each individual, such as what kind of family you were born with, what religion are you, whether or not you have siblings, etc, but it is up to us to create the chapters of this story. For example if you are born in a well off family with a good education and supportive parents, yet you don't work hard in school, then you won't have enjoyed the same quality of life as you would have if you had studied and tried hard in class. That being said, we all have to make good choices, regardless of your background, family, or how unfair life may be, good choices can still change your life for the better. By: Marc Gebara
ReplyDeleteI agree with this. I think the metaphor of our lives being a book is very cool. I wouldn't thought of it that way. Overall i ,too, think that we make our own choices that determine our quality of life.
DeleteAs if whether your life is dictated by choice or by fate, I think no one can ever really know that, unless you die and God tells you or something...I think there are some reasons as to why people believe in either choice. People might believe that choice governs your life because they want a feeling of "power", an assurance that they can do something about their life, rather than predestination dictating it for them. On the other hand, people also like to believe in "fate" because it practically absolves them of all responsibility! If your life is already determined from the instant you were conceived, you are technically not responsible for anything you do. Adolf Hitler could have said it was predestination that he became the dictator and murderer of millions. Personally, I like to believe that choice determines which path you take in life, but that's just me.
ReplyDeleteWhen I think about the word “fate”, the first thing that comes to my mind is The Sims, a life simulation game. In the game, you are pretty much god over all the sims(simulated humans); you can control their every move, what they eat, who they interact with, what career path they choose, and even when they pee. If our lives really are controlled by fate, then what really is fate? We all know that fate is something that happens inevitably, but what is the force behind it? Personally, it is hard for me to believe that fate is just a huge lifeless force that conducts the universe. There would have to be some form of higher power controlling our lives, IF our lives were controlled by fate, that is. Continuing on The Sims, my mental image of fate is of a huge building filled with billions of cubicles each containing a Sims gamer who is in charge of one human life on earth. I know, that is super far-fetched; don’t judge me. Now that I think about it, The Sims actually falls nicely into this fate vs. choice debate (oh you thought I was done?). IF fate did control our lives, I believe it would be something like The Sims. In the game, everyone has a lifetime goal, and it is the player’s goal to help the sim(simulation) achieve that goal. Just like in the game, fate could set us to “high free will” and just check in periodically to make sure that we’re on the track. That is, IF we are controlled by fate. Okay, I’m done with The Sims.
ReplyDeleteDespite what I just said, I do believe that the choices people make in the present will change their future for either better or worse and that there are an infinite number of paths that I could take that would lead me to infinite possible futures. The fact that free will could all be an illusion (like Shiv mentioned before) is the only hole in my belief.
Although I do not believe that fate plays a role in our lives, I definitely believe that everything in life happens for a reason. Marilyn Monroe once said, “I believe that everything happens for a reason. People change so that you can learn to let go, things go wrong so that you appreciate them when they're right, you believe lies so you eventually learn to trust no one but yourself, and sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.”
~Robert Yuan 1st Period~
I believe it's our choices that determine our fate. Nobody's life is predetermined. It's our choices that make the future how it is. If it is fate, however, we would never know. If our actions are already set before us then fate would be real, but we will never know. It is a possibility, however. I still think that our choices determine our future. How can this unknown force tell us how our lives are going to be. There is one fate that is certain of everyone, death. Everyone is going to die eventually, and that can a somewhat predetermined fate. It's basically half and half. Also, our fate is relied upon our choices, so technically both are true.
ReplyDeleteJeffrey Feng- 1st Period
I believe that our choices in life decide what happen to us. Our whole life isn't just laid out for us at birth. if it was what would be the point of living if you couldn't change anything about what was going to happen in your life. you can make a choice at any point that could change your fate. Your life is whatever you make it and you control the choices that affect the path of your life.
ReplyDeleteGod told adam and eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but he ultimately knew that it was up to them. if they had refrained from taking the fruit off the tree, all of mankind wouldn't of been born sinful, and we would not know death. but they made the decision to eat off of the tree and disobey god and that changed all of mankind's out come.
-scott garrison 5th period
ps. sorry it took so long!
Personally speaking, I'd love to think that choices determine our lives. However I've read elsewhere that truthfully speaking everything is predetermined, and haven't been able to disprove the logic of it. See if you can.
DeleteThe argument goes, That everything i predetermined, so long as we accept the premise that What we choose to do, or our actions, reflect our character/person/etc. Then everything is predetermined.
This is because, If our actions are determined by what kind of person we are, then we must be able to determine who we are. However, who we are is necessarily determined by our birth as well as the environment around us. A common argument against that is that "We can choose to change", however given the argument, it's important to remember that how we would choose to change ourself, or if we even did at all, would also be dependent on our previous person, which we had no control over. In the end, no one can really say to have freedom in "choosing oneself" therefore, no one can chose how their life will end up.
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ReplyDeleteMany authors, religions, and people alike share the belief that life is predetermined by fate. Although the idea of our lives being out of our control, we must admit that our life is definitely constrained in some way. For instance, certain athletic excellence is imposible for a person who is physically disabled. However, ones choices can at times exceed the boundaries of fate. For instance, many might argue with a pessimistic tone, that those who are poor will remain poor. And for the majority of people, the fate does seem to take over and hold true. Yet, there are those few that are able to excel past, either with an invention, or hard work climbing the social latter. With all this in mind, In the end, both fate and choice are correct, but each prevails in depending on the person.
ReplyDelete